Hard to beat. And similarly, the Vortex Smart is at $520, but spec-wise it just doesn’t compete with the others above from a simulation of incline or accuracy standpoint. Totally understandable, nothing is wrong with the snap, I could definitely keep it – would give me two (one for son and one for myself). Any other thoughts or considerations I am missing? I’ll ask why. Included speed sensor connects you with Rouvy, Zwift and other indoor cycling apps. In other words: A company has to follow the well recognized standards to even be considered for this list. Wahoo KICK has been there for two years now. It’s there. Just like all the trainers here with the exception of the Wahoo Fitness KICKR, the CycleOps Hammer doesn’t come with a cassette, so you’ll need to factor that into the purchase cost. Thanks for this Cypher — I’m seeing issues and also on my 3rd replacement unit. That’s when my mind blew apart. I don’t need 2500 W power output, I don’t need power meter – I use my crank power meter outside and want to use it indoor to have the same device to measure my power. It's my first direct drive smart trainer, so I really can't compare it to it's current competitors. In motion, they are probably equal-ish (quieter than a fan). I know they were getting about half-way there on fixes with software, but I think some of it required new hardware due to a substantial change in how much power it can provide resistance for at specific speeds. Mag Trainer Smart Equipped . I hope it’s worth it for the use that i will give. Killer deal. The flats are occurring away from the rim. The NEO is basically the heaviest and least easy to move around (doesn’t even have a handle – annoyingly). Dont want to spend out on a new one that will be out of date in 3 months!! But again, definitely provisional until I can get it in to test. Still, if you want the ultimate in upwards/downwards indoor trainer movement, the KICKR 2018 + CLIMB is where it’s at (well, technically the KICKR BIKE has a greater range). Quite impressed. Other than the longer battery life, I dont see any advantage over the new version of it which will have a lower price, plus no need for weights. But again, I sure as hell wouldn’t buy a used KICKR CORE/2018 off of anybody (Updated note: This does not apply to Wahoo’s own refurbed units. Wheel-on trainers mean that you mount the entire bike, inclusive of your back wheel, to the trainer. If physio true up was working for my F3HR, I would have kept it, but am thinking about an F5 or F6, after i situate myself for the trainer. With Black Friday sales on this week-end, is down to a reconditioned KICKR CORE ($549USD –> $900 CAD delivered) vs. Suito (~$950CAD + tax). The triangle-shaped feet allow only crude adjustments, and they don’t easily accommodate uneven flooring, either. These descisions are basically because they’re European (as in your comments about returns etc). That said, Tacx released a cool one that actually has a cell-phone holder built in (with a protective plastic cover). Thanks, Definitely. With a new dedicated room i also expect to upgrade to a modern trainer, but how much space do i need for it not to be cramped ? It’s quite a bit quieter than the Hammer 1/Hammer 2 were though, thankfully. The kickr core is the other option. I certainly wouldn’t recommend this for heavier riders, but it might work well for lighter riders that are mostly doing ERG work (structured workouts). Period. There’s plenty of other sites on the internet you can browse. I’d recommend either a simple 4-cup OXO measuring cup (silly, I know, but it clips onto almost all road bike bars and triathlon bike aerobars – awesome). I will! Then, I come here and write about my adventures. You know what’s missing from all of these indoor trainers, though? No problem! Thanks again for the detailed post. I did spend more time with the Wahoo KICKR Snap and it proved to be a more positive experience. In the UK/EU/Australia/New Zealand? This tops out at only 6% inclines and 800w. That central unit’s large footprint doesn’t sink into carpet padding very much, and the feet on the outriggers don’t extend down far enough to completely keep the trainer from rocking. Huh. I have two friends one with the drivo and one with the kickr. You can find endless numbers of them online or at your local bike shop – usually around $30. Although this would obviously disrupt the Neo Smart’s keen aesthetics, I dare say Tacx should consider flipping the 73cm-wide and 35cm-wide ends of the base around. I had to change my price bucketing last year to account for this (again). I like smooth transitions around the draft, but responsive attacks/sprints. Have they been resolved? This is supposed to be compatible, but the spacing between the cassette and drive side drop out is wider than when the wheel is installed. Wobling flywheels, knocking sound, no firmware related at all, much worse problems. The Elite Drivo includes end caps for 130mm and 135mm quick-release frames, and 142x12mm thru-axle ones. Best, (Speaking of humming, though, it is not particularly quiet, so that is one thing of which to be aware.). I don’t think an unbalanced flywheel was one of the common two issues though. Hi Ray, when can I expect an update of this trainer guide? Guys please kindly share your thoughts. Just a wee update. The Tacx Neo Smart is compatible with thru-axles, but the requisite end caps aren’t included (nor is a cassette, for that matter). Use those routes to control the smart trainer via an app on my iphone/ipad? Heck, Elite even saves you $5-$10 by tossing in a front wheel riser. Dank der neuen Smart-Rollentrainer und Trainings-Apps wie u.a. Prepared to spend AU$ 1800 however Im not sure im not buying another lemon or being last one to buy an old model Can you confirm what the firmware version is for this update? First and foremost, I only recommend trainers I’ve actually used. Technically they’re cobblestones or what-not on Zwift, but you get the point. And that combination put it over the edge. And for good reason: It requires no calibration, it’s really damn accurate, and it just works. And while the Elite Drivo will measure rider cadence via the included wired sensor, the Neo Smart does it in a more sophisticated (albeit also more error-prone) manner by detecting small power fluctuations in your pedal stroke. The CycleOps Hammer’s threaded axle end caps are slower to change than the tool-free ends on the Wahoo Fitness KICKR, but they’re also less prone to creaking since they’re firmly locked in place. But ultimately, all those trainers make some amount of noise once you put a bike on it. I posted my full Elite Suito review here: link to dcrainmaker.com. Granted, there are people that can put out a lot more power than I. Or is it faster to use ANT+ FE-C on Windows or Mac? I presume this is something that will be resolved in firmware? The Wahoo Fitness KICKR isn’t as impressive at first glance as the other trainers here. Thanks again for your help! I have a DCAnalyzer file showing the slips if interested, you can clearly see the Vector losing power as I was messing about and stamping . I actualu like KICKR over Neo 2 (didnt try 2T). Accessories As for CORE, I don’t expect any further Wahoo trainers this year (as they stated their full 2020-2021 winter training season trainer lineup is complete). I train every day on the stock wheels and tires that came with the bike. You say that Suito is very quiet, but are road feel and ERG mode on the level of Direto X or Tacx Flux? None of which are really applicable to TrainerRoad for most people. My 5 cents are to just keep the Snap if there is no issue with it. Unfortunately, this unit continues to sit downstairs boxed (it’s been there for months). Cosmetically, there might be some scratches or nicks. I don’t know which to choose from the wahoo kicker core and the saris H3, at the moment both are almost the same price what would you recommend? Enjoy ans take care. I’d say if you want that NEO 2T deal, to jump on it though (and change your mind later). And while the Neo Smart is compatible with thru-axles, Tacx doesn’t include the end caps; you have to buy those separately. But as we stand here in October 2019, the complaints about those issues for people buying new units have evaporated. Now this line-up has mostly remained the same. As noted above, it’s likely because I haven’t used it. Does anybody have any experience with this solutions and how this could be solved? However, from my limited experience riding other trainers between the $700 – $1K range, (Flux S, Kickr Snap, Elite Suito, they sound about the same – not silent but certainly not super loud, even in a condo setting, with reviews usually quoting a 20mph sound level around 70dB instead the 60dB or just under for the three nearly “silent” models above. Maximum claimed resistance is more than the vast majority of us will ever need at a healthy 2,000W, and CycleOps claims the Hammer will simulate an uphill slope of up to 20%, something plenty of riders have never even seen in person. So in the 2020 guide you will write “The new Suito X is wonderful, hit all the right spots, not like the awful and faulty 2019 regular suito, that had issues left and right… ” when the suito is recommended in 2019. I’ve been holding off until now. The Elite Drivo is awkward to set up and fold, and only tenuously stands up on its own when the legs are tucked away. If you want both the quietest and most accurate trainer on the market (and most powerful), this is it. No need for a subscription. On my Tacx Genius, I suppose it makes downhill coasting a tiny bit more “real”, but I’d rather be without the extra noise. Nor has a single trainer company *ever* said that’s causing hardware issues. Magnetic and Fluid options would be best here and certainly not any air resistance units which are much louder. This one will also go back and will ask for a refund. At 200W of resistance, the Hammer posts a noise level of 62dB — the same as the Wahoo Fitness KICKR, and just slightly louder than the Drivo. There’s plenty of information for idiots like me to make a decision and as I get better there’s plenty more. Before doing setup I just unpacked the core Core and spinned the flywheel manually. The 2020-2021 Smart Trainer Recommendations Guide is now up! Though the Saris H3 looks like a good deal also. I have notes at the bottom of this post for all my caveats and why-nots. Its arrow-shaped frame is far more simplistic-looking, it looks nearly the same as when the first-generation was initially introduced in 2012, and its various spinning bits are left on full display instead of neatly tucked away inside a big shroud. Interesting about the Garmin refurbishing process. (I have yet to use it as I am waiting on the cassette to arrive). You’re awsome! Now, if you’re riding race wheels with expensive race tires – you’ll have to balance the much higher cost of most race tires. It’s pretty cool in a geeky way, albeit without a ton of specific training value. Seems reasonable although suspect it will become normalised when 2T hits. I believe they’re 549EUR on Wahoo’s site. CycleOps Hammer vs. the competition. It’s not just the length of the warranty period that is important, it’s also how good the support is when a trainer is in (or out of) warranty. If you’re planning on buying the KICKR CLIMB, then obviously, get a Wahoo unit. For example; Imma roadie/Triathlete, in my 50’s my average FTP is in the 250 space, I can sprint up to a peak in the area of 1200 watts. Certainly many people trained at least part of their workouts year-round indoors, but with apps being more and more engaging (and driver interactions getting worse and worse) – people are simply spending time even on sunny days indoors riding. Surprisingly I got a new Core, no longer a refurb’ed one as replacement. Click above for all the details. It might be a fun test side by side when GPLama is here next month to see how quickly they respond in-game with two people that sprint at the exact same second. I have beenusing tacx neo for two years (3 or 4 x week) without any issue and I am very happy with the progress I made using a home trainer + trainer road combo! But again, either is great. This makes sense. I still hope for a non faulty unit but if I will get 3 replacement units that were not ok, I will also ask for a refund. Alternatively, for everything else on the planet, simply buy your goods from Amazon via the link below and I get a tiny bit back as an Amazon Associate. It’s actually kinda brilliant. In any case, we saw new smart trainers (or indoor bikes) from virtually every major brand this year, as well as some smaller brands. maybe 2% are not crap? I purchased this because it was one of the top three direct-drive trainers and because it was on sale. There’s just something about the road feel that draws me in. This category has largely remained the same for the three previous years, (both winners and non-winners alike), but finally, Saris manages to join the ranks of the recommended units list here with the H3. What makes this segment interesting, is what happens with the 4iiii and Tuo. I suspect most people can’t feel the flywheel size difference between the 2017 and 2018, I know I can’t. We were all starting to worry you’d given up on trainers . No problem, here's the platform I use - you can too! My purpose isn’t so much moving the goalposts, as it is making the groupings more logical. I’ve replaced my kickr 17 and 18 under warranty. Thanks Ray for the great article. The most common question I receive outside of the “what’s the best GPS watch for me” variant, are photography-esq based. Of course, this unit is being phased out because 4iiii acquired STAC and is now making the 4iiii Fliiiight, which I’ve provisionally included in the $500-$700 bucket. Note that this feature only works when you have the trainer plugged into the outlet. You say that most of these trainers don’t have a power meter, right? I could never get the NX to shift well or line up with the derailleur when the derailleur is tuned for the GX cassette on my wheel. Simple – follow my full post here where I go into both testing and troubleshooting your trainers and power meters for accuracy. Mantel feels like a safer bet, when it comes to possible guarantee issues, compared to CRC, pending a possible Brexit. It’s a nice break from the day to day sports-tech talk, and I hope you get something out of it! So installing the fourth o-ring didn’t improve the situation. And accuracy/ERG mode, etc…. What matters is whether or not it’s accurate. My one question is which of these would you recommend for a bigger guy. New Kickr Core. The third o-ring reduces the problem. Yesterday receive my brand new CycleOps H2. Any problems about syncro? which way would you go? Bluetooth Smart Power Meter Profile: This broadcasts as a standard BLE power meter with speed as well as cadence. As one who does that regularly, it’s @#$#@ expensive. I don’t know what Elite apparently did to you, or why you’re so upset about a trainer you don’t have, or what I apparently did to you, but eventually you cross the line. I was inclined to purchase a TACX Neo 2T smart but now I am concerned. Or, how can I see if my trainer is accurate? It’s a mix. Yup, Dave nailed it. I will stay away from Wahoo. THANK YOU again. However, I’ll tackle that all next week in the shoot-out. Elite: 2 years After spending sometime in the design lab in Madison, WI, CycleOps came out with a smart, interactive, wheel-on design that is just as good as any other wheel-on design smart trainer, if not even better. 11 or 12sp Eagle? 30 days Rouvy But for those of us in the Northern Hemisphere you’re probably thinking about spending more and more time indoors on a trainer, and perhaps looking at a new trainer. Really keen to get it, just want to make sure….. In talking with Elite about it, They’re looking to go into 2020 with basically standardizing most team sponsorships on the Elite Suito. Yes, I want my cake and be able to eat it too.
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